Boning commercial Bodice pattern

[Epona]

So I am drafting out the princess seams, which should help some, but I'm still thinking I should add boning.  Will along the seams be sufficient, or should I add more? Pattern is Butterick/Macall's 4669 (doing a combo of A and C without the skirt thingy) http://butterick.mccall.com/b4669-products-6871.php?page_id=385

This is my first time sewing a bodice or using boning, so I'm pretty ignorant.

[isabelladangelo]

Yay on no princess seams!  Yes on boning.

First, go to home depot/ace/Lowes/insert favorite hardware store here and get duct ties (not cable ties) for boning.  You can cut them any length and you just sand off the edges to remove sharp bits.   They typically come in around 32" lengths.

Second, place the boning as in the diagram below (the blue ones should go to the waistline in the back, the green ones are really bad straight lines because I'm still getting used to this version of photoshop.  ;-) )

[Epona]

Thanks so much!

[gem]

I am busty, so I also like to add a diagonal bone from the waist to the armscye. Here's my preferred bodice boning pattern (using the heavy-duty cable ties, as Isabella recommended):



That's one bone along the front edge; a gap for the eyelets; then 2 more vertical bones; the diagonal bone; and a last bone along the side seams. I don't generally bone the backs of my bodices--although I have (usually four, in a fan shape similar to the blue lines in Isabella's sketch)--because mine are typically four layers of pretty heavy fabric, and I haven't usually needed to. YMMV.

...And if you get *really* ambitious, you can bone the whole thing and make it a corset! 



And here's a photo of me in a front-lacing bodice with that boning arrangement (goofy smile on my face b/c I am sharing an apple dumpling w/my dog).

[Kate XXXXXX]

Other than 'forget cable ties and use real boning', I can't add much to Gem's post.  Real boning of the baleen (whalebone) replacement type is stiffer and less bulky, and built for the job.  It's readily available by the yard/roll online.  Cable ties WILL bend: they are made to.  Boning will bend less and last longer.

[Epona]

Thanks for the tips everybody. I'm making it this weekend, so we'll see how it goes.

[Lady Rosalind]

Other than 'forget cable ties and use real boning', I can't add much to Gem's post.  Real boning of the baleen (whalebone) replacement type is stiffer and less bulky, and built for the job.  It's readily available by the yard/roll online.  Cable ties WILL bend: they are made to.  Boning will bend less and last longer.

Do you have a link? When doing a search, I got nothing...

[isabelladangelo]

Other than 'forget cable ties and use real boning', I can't add much to Gem's post.  Real boning of the baleen (whalebone) replacement type is stiffer and less bulky, and built for the job.  It's readily available by the yard/roll online.  Cable ties WILL bend: they are made to.  Boning will bend less and last longer.

Do you have a link? When doing a search, I got nothing...

http://farthingalescorsetmakingsupplies.com/products.php?cat=plastic%20bones

It's at the bottom of the page and it's not cheap. 

This discussion came up *years* ago on a historical costuming list.  Cable ties in the UK are different than in the US.  All the US girls were exulting the virtues of duct ties while the UK girls were all "What the heck?"...Turned out - after many pictures were taken- they don't have duct ties like we have here in the US - at least back then.  Theirs are very flexible whereas ours are meant to hold a duct in place for pretty much ever in a frame structure. 

That being said, you can get real Baleen from some of the American Indian tribes up in Alaska.  However, it's also not cheap. 

[Lady Rosalind]

Thanks, Isabella!

Duct ties are far cheaper, and to be honest, I have a corset I made 6 years ago that is still going strong. I've never had a problem with the duct ties, and one package lasts a good while.

I was just interested in seeing if the plastic whalebone could compare and be cheaper, but it looks like it is much more expensive.

[Kate XXXXXX]

Oh, we can get the big hefty duct ties.  But the boning is about the same price per foot, you waste less cutting it off the roll, and it's a LOT easier to get hold of.  And, in a direct comparison for weight, authentic look, and comfort, the boning was much better.

[isabelladangelo]

Kate, I'm not sure about in the UK but, honestly, here in the states you nearly always need to order corset supplies of any kind.   That means a good 2 day wait at the least and normally a good couple of weeks. I'm sure based upon what you have said, the prices are different in the UK but here, the plastic boning you need to order is roughly four times the price per a yard of the duct ties.   If you add in shipping plus the amount of boning I'd need, it gets pretty ridiculous pretty quickly.   The hardware store that sells the duct ties is a mile down the road for me and I know exactly where they are. The duct ties range from about $10~$15 for a package of 20. 

[Epona]

I finished it, ending up only boning the front seams because it was struggling, but I think it turned out okay (it's my LARPing bodice anyways, so when I make my "good" one I will fully bone) Check it out here http://www.renaissancefestival.com/forums/index.php/topic,20086.0.html

[Kate XXXXXX]

Isabella, even if they were cheaper, I'd have to order the duct ties specially, just as I have to order the boning.  It costs less and is quicker to order and get next day delivery on the proper boning than planning a trip to London and taking out a whole day to go and shop for either!

Also, as most of our kit is for bespoke custom work, we'd never dream of using anything except the real thing.  I'm not sure you could for something this shaped...



Four quarter inch flat steels (either side of the lacing holes), 12 spiral steels, 2 five-eighth inch flat steels for the busk up the center front, and two plastic bones in the modesty panel up the back!

Having experimented with both, I would always advise even a home dressmaker indulging in a bit of fantasy/LARP kit to plan ahead in time, save up if you have to,  and use the real stuff as it does SO much better a job, and you don't want to be putting that much work and effort into materials that were not designed to do the job..

[stonebiscuit]

Kate, if you could be a little more condescending, I feel like this thread would be perfect.

If duct ties don't work for you or you prefer something else, that's super, and worth sharing, but you needn't completely discount the experience of the number of experienced seamstresses on this board (and elsewhere).

[Sev]

I've read in a number of sources that the better-quality duct ties are actually quite similar to real whalebone in a number of ways, including a tendency to mold to a particular shape in the presence of heat/steam.

I've also read (and experienced, to an extent) that, depending on the type/era of stays or corset that you're making, the key to good fit, shape, and support is in the cut of the pattern and the nature of the fabric itself; in Victorian corsetry, for example, the boning has very little to do with the reshaping of the torso, especially around the waist -- that has almost everything to do with the fit of the pattern and the strength of the fabric -- the boning's primary purpose is merely to keep the fabric from wrinkling or buckling vertically. Obviously this isn't going to apply to all styles in all cases... but I think you may be giving your boning more credit than it deserves.

Considering how much success there's been in patterning cotehardies and Campi dresses to provide support without any boning at all... I'm not sure the use of cable ties is much of a crime.

This whole "cable ties are AWFUL USE THE REAL THING STEEL IS THE ONLY WAY TO GO!!!" business has always just reminded me of the same blind elitism I saw in high school among the manga fans, who liked to claim that Japanese comics were SO MUCH BETTER THAN WESTERN COMICS because x y and z -- when most weren't very familiar with western comics at all. (I was one of those morons. I'm not proud... but now I've gotten over myself and get to enjoy everything! haha)

There are certain applications where steel would be better, yes, or even the ONLY thing that would work in that particular case. But cable ties are a perfectly valid option, if incredibly anachronistic and it's pretty disheartening to see them being put down so vehemently.