non-Scottish wearing kilts

[Ser Niall]

As far as I know, I have no Scottish blood in me (although I have some Irish).  In an effort to diversify my ren fest outfits, and to get something different to wear, I'm considering belted plaid.  Would it be strange to do this given no Scottish ancestry in my background?  Are there any other non-Scots out there who wear kilts to the ren fest?

I know the tartans are specific to family names, but do vendors create "generic" or non-family specific tartans?

[Rogue Hidesmith]

I promise that you can wear a kilt regardless of your ancestry. I've seen vendors selling kilts made from nondescript plaids, sometimes referred to as "clan MacPicnic". Only the pedantic really care. Just go with whatever you like and you're comfortable in.

For instance, I wear a Clan Mackenzie tartan and I'm as scottish as kung pow chicken.

[Francisco Paula]

There is always the Nightwatch which any clan can wear. They also have tartans out there for branches of the military and some states have there own tartan as well.

[Ser Niall]

Thanks for the replies, and the tartan ideas.  Did a google search and found this for the state of Michigan: http://www.tartansauthority.com/tartan-ferret/display/3473/michigan-state-of-district

[Rogue Hidesmith]

That's actually a very snazzy Tartan I like it!

[Merlin the Elder]

Even though my Celtic ties are mostly of the eastern European variety (before they settled in western Europe), I do have a Scotty-in-the-woodpile. I can wear the tartan of Clan Hamilton, should I choose to.

[Kruzar]

There is nothing wrong with wearing a kilt no matter what your ancestry.  I currently wear a Kommando Kilt as part of my ren faire garb, and although it is not historically accurate it is very comfortable.  I went with a straight forward black kilt, and it works well with all my other pieces that I have.  And since most of the fairs I attend are in warmer climates, it is much more comfortable than some of the pant options that I have.

Outside of this, there are several kilt fabrics out there that follow a more traditional tartan look, but have no familiy ties.  As mentioned, there are some state tartans out there, but I have even seen some that go as far as having a tartan to support your favorite sports team.

I'm personally in the market for my next couple of kilts. I am really looking at doing a traditional tartan that I can claim ancestry for, but I am also looking for a couple more fun options since I do wear my kilt outside of ren faires as well.

[Ser Niall]

Well, I'm glad I won't inadvertently bring the wrath of any true born Scots by wearing a kilt then

That Michigan tartan is indeed sharp.  It will probably be on the short list of plaids when I start putting the outfit together.

[Hatter]

I'm of Scottish decent.  My mother's maiden name was Macdonald.  I think it is great for anyone to wear a kilt.  To me it is an honor that non Scots wish to identify with this noble heritage.  Just a side note... the Irish wore kilts too.  You can find Irish tartans on most tartan finder sites.

[groomporter]

There are dozens of tartans that are not associated with specific clans. There's a list here
http://www.scottishclansman.com/finder.html

Here's a list of U.S. state tartans with pictures
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._state_tartans

And for Renfair purposes it doesn't matter anyway. At the time, tartans were not assigned to specific clans, that is a Victorian misconception. So at a Renfair no one should question what tartan you wear, (at Scottish fairs people can occasionally get more snooty about it). Many of the current "clan tartans" were actually designed in the 1800's since some clans never had specific patterns/colors associated with their family.

In the Scottish reenactment group I was in we kind of discouraged people from wearing Royal Stewart since many people recognize that as being connected to the British royal family, but that was just for theatrical reasons we didn't want the audience to assume someone's persona had royal connections.

(I've done Scottish since before a Highlander was a TV cult)

[Nighthawk]

First off, something that Groomporter has mentioned is that the clan tartan system is a Victorian period invention. Before that, tartans were regional, simply because the weavers used yarn that was dyed using the local resources. A tartan woven by the MacLeods of Skye would have looked very different from the tartan woven by the MacLoeds of Dunvegan, for example. It wasn't a "Hey!! Look at what clan I am!!" kind of thing; it was simple usage of local resources. So in reality, regional tartans, like a state tartan or the Isle of Skye district tartan, would be more historically accurate.

Second... Very few of us (and I mean VERY few of us) who are of Scots descent and who do carry the culture and traditions would bat an eye at a non-Scot wearing a kilt, or even wearing a kilt in our clan tartan. If you want to dump $600 into a MacLeod clan tartan kilt, knock yourself out!! I'm honestly flattered when someone not of my clan likes our tartan enough to spend that kind of cash on it. As to the kilt thing... You don't have to be a cowboy to wear jeans, do you? A kilt is not costume- it's clothing. How you wear it determines weather or not it's a costume.

Which brings me to point number three...

Third- While we don't care about non Scots wearing the kilt, and even encourage it, one thing a lot of us do get bothered by is someone wearing it incorrectly. (Like the guy I saw last year with nine yards of cloth wrapped around himself so tightly that he could barely walk! Kilts do in fact get pleated!) It is, in fact, a cultural icon that is deeply important to a lot of us- myself included. Give it the respect and dignity it deserves- do some research. Learn the correct ways to wear the kilt, both the great kilt and the little kilt, and the modern tailored kilt. That way, if someone does ask you a question or offered a critique, you'll be able to give an intelligent reply. I, for example, wear my kilts longer than most. The reason is that I wear them with a military rise, which means the waist of the kilt is 2 inches higher than the normal kilt. I'm a big SOB. I need the extra length when I sit; otherwise, sensitive things come in contact with hot things... and that's just not fun!

So with all this in mind, I am in an historical reenactment/living history group called the Renaissance Scots Living History Association. I can set you well on your way to looking the part. Feel free to shoot me a private message with any questions, and I'll run you over all the culturally correct accessories and such.

Was this answer long-winded enough? I sure hope so... because I will NOT be typing any more to it!!  

[Nighthawk]

In the Scottish reenactment group I was in we kind of discouraged people from wearing Royal Stewart since many people recognize that as being connected to the British royal family, but that was just for theatrical reasons we didn't want the audience to assume someone's persona had royal connections.

(I've done Scottish since before a Highlander was a TV cult)

Like my avatar? 

[groomporter]

Yup nice targe!

The mention of people wearing kilts wrong reminds me we caught several newbies last season at MNRF and a 18th century event who were wearing their "modern" kilts backwards with the pleats across the front. We also occasionally see guys wearing great kilts that hang down to mid-calf and they often get teased that they are either bashful about wearing a kilt or bragging about their size... I don't menton this to be catty, but to help others avoid getting catty comments.

Bag pipe bands, and from what I've seen in pictures of modern Scottish regiments, often wear kilts that cover the knee, but for civilian wear, to the top of the knee cap is suposed to be acceptable. There was a thread on Xmarksthescot ( http://www.xmarksthescot.com/forum/f100/traditional-kilt-length-11911/ ) that suggests that Americans tend to wear their kilts slightly longer.

A while ago I posted a thread with some tips for new kilt wearers
http://www.renaissancefestival.com/forums/index.php?topic=687.0

[groomporter]

Well you don't have to even wear a kilt to be Scottish -I've said more than once who says plaid pants aren't sexy ;-)

[Nighthawk]

Yup nice targe!

The mention of people wearing kilts wrong reminds me we caught several newbies last season at MNRF and a 18th century event who were wearing their "modern" kilts backwards with the pleats across the front. We also occasionally see guys wearing great kilts that hang down to mid-calf and they often get teased that they are either bashful about wearing a kilt or bragging about their size... I don't menton this to be catty, but to help others avoid getting catty comments.

Bag pipe bands, and from what I've seen in pictures of modern Scottish regiments, often wear kilts that cover the knee, but for civilian wear, to the top of the knee cap is suposed to be acceptable. There was a thread on Xmarksthescot ( http://www.xmarksthescot.com/forum/f100/traditional-kilt-length-11911/ ) that suggests that Americans tend to wear their kilts slightly longer.

A while ago I posted a thread with some tips for new kilt wearers
http://www.renaissancefestival.com/forums/index.php?topic=687.0

I have more than once given pleating/wrapping demos on the jousting field at the Colorado Ren Fest...

Well you don't have to even wear a kilt to be Scottish -I've said more than once who says plaid pants aren't sexy ;-)

Ah! Truis! I personally prefer a nice great kilt for warmth, but you can't beat truis for convenience!   I like those- they're unusual. They look a lot like the diced hose of the 1800's. Where did you get them?

[Julianne]

I take umbrage to "adopting" a clan and doning the kilt simply because you like the colours.

If you want to portray a scot then wear an non-clan kilt.

[escherblacksmith]

so . . . when you get down to it, you have a several choices

1. get a general plaid fabric for a great kilt (I'd recommend a thickish wool blend for the right weight and swoosh as you walk, also great for bustling)
2. get a short kilt (not really period, but neither are most festivals), the ones most readily available are considered open (royal stewart, blackwatch, etc).
3. get a good accent and wear whatever is handy/appropriate for your particular fair(e).  Which is what a itinerant wandering scot would do anyway.

As it is, I have a really good great kilt and a terrible accent.  But then again, have you ever tried to explain 12 Man Morris to an 8-year-old with a thick scottish accent?  I couldn't understand a thing he said.

 

[groomporter]

Ah! Truis! I personally prefer a nice great kilt for warmth, but you can't beat truis for convenience!   I like those- they're unusual. They look a lot like the diced hose of the 1800's. Where did you get them?

They were made years ago by my sister-in-law who's one of the costumers at MNRF she also made the Black Watch ones I'm wearing in my profile pic. From what I've read early trews had a tighter fit than later military styles and since they are cut on the bias the wool "gives" a little more. I started wearing them instead of a kilt back when I started portraying an officer instead of a lowly pikeman.

[Nighthawk]

They were made years ago by my sister-in-law who's one of the costumers at MNRF she also made the Black Watch ones I'm wearing in my profile pic. From what I've read early trews had a tighter fit than later military styles and since they are cut on the bias the wool "gives" a little more. I started wearing them instead of a kilt back when I started portraying an officer instead of a lowly pikeman.

That's exactly right- they were more like tights than anything else! I'd love to see a better picture of the Black Watch ones. In your avatar, they just look like solid black!

2. get a short kilt (not really period, but neither are most festivals), the ones most readily available are considered open (royal stewart, blackwatch, etc).

That's not entirely true. A lot of Highlanders just didn't bother stitching the two halves of the kilt together. Take this picture of my buddy Rondo for example:



It pleats like a great kilt, but the top 3 inches or so just flop over the belt. It wasn't as common, but this style of wear was around at the same time as the great kilt. We call the modern tailored kilt a phillabeg, but this is what a true phillabeg looks like.

I take umbrage to "adopting" a clan and doning the kilt simply because you like the colours.

If you want to portray a scot then wear an non-clan kilt.

I tend to agree on the basis of historical accuracy.

[groomporter]

They were made years ago by my sister-in-law who's one of the costumers at MNRF she also made the Black Watch ones I'm wearing in my profile pic. From what I've read early trews had a tighter fit than later military styles and since they are cut on the bias the wool "gives" a little more. I started wearing them instead of a kilt back when I started portraying an officer instead of a lowly pikeman.

That's exactly right- they were more like tights than anything else! I'd love to see a better picture of the Black Watch ones. In your avatar, they just look like solid black!

Here's the Black Watch pair worn as part of my Jacobite outfit (The coat and vest were inspired by an color plate in the Osprey Men at War series on the Jacobite Rebellions.) I like to wear this subtle outfit at 18th century reenactments on Sunday morning when people have hangovers


Here's a mustard & black pair I have that my wife like the best

[Nighthawk]

Here's the Black Watch pair worn as part of my Jacobite outfit (The coat and vest were inspired by an color plate in the Osprey Men at War series on the Jacobite Rebellions.) I like to wear this subtle outfit at 18th century reenactments on Sunday morning when people have hangovers


Here's a mustard & black pair I have that my wife like the best

You know the only things missing? A basket hilt, a steel pistol, and a flattened powder horn! JAS Townsend had some a week or so ago if you already have one. I know what a pain in the rear end it is to flatten horns... They smell bad when they're hot, too!! I so want to make you a targe to go with those outfits!

[groomporter]

Got a basket hilt, but as a merchant these days it just gets in the way, always wanted one of the pistols...

[escherblacksmith]

That's not entirely true. A lot of Highlanders just didn't bother stitching the two halves of the kilt together. Take this picture of my buddy Rondo for example:

well, yes, but I was referring to the stitched modern style, with the sewn in pleats and whatnot.  That is readily available in open patterns, but isn't very period.

To be fair, though, I have never seen direct evidence of what you are referring to.  I don't doubt it was done, just have never seen evidence.

[Nighthawk]

well, yes, but I was referring to the stitched modern style, with the sewn in pleats and whatnot.  That is readily available in open patterns, but isn't very period.

To be fair, though, I have never seen direct evidence of what you are referring to.  I don't doubt it was done, just have never seen evidence.

I see your point! I thought you were referring to the philabeg... My mistake!!

On the subject of direct evidence... You're right. But keep in mind that the people who would have worn the kilt were poor Highlanders for the most part. The people who got their portraits done were the wealthy, which is what we base a lot of our knowledge on, and the way the wealthy did things was not the way the destitute did them, just like today. There is actually very little direct evidence for anything the average Highlander did. We can speculate on what makes the most or least sense, like keeping herds out to pasture in spring, summer and fall, and in quarters in winter. That's the way it was done because the herds would freeze to death otherwise. But we don't know exactly how the great kilt was actually put on, for example. We're pretty sure we know- the way we put it on today makes sense- but there's so very little direct evidence for anything!! As a matter of fact, there is direct evidence that the kilt was occasionally worn pleated all the way around!!



And I can't find any decent size pictures of Flora MacDonalds Farewell To Bonnie Prince Charlie, but it also looks in that painting like Prince Charlie's kilt is also pleated all the way around! It's interesting what evidence actually does exist, isn't it? I'd love to go back in time 3 or 4 hundred years just so I can ask all these question!

[Julianne]

I'm kinda gobsmacked at the idea that the only scots that don kilts were highlanders?  Lowlanders unite!!!!!!!!!!!
We all know of the laws and the banning of colors, etc.  but the traditions proved steadfast and the lowland clans are still there.
Portraits done of englishmen exalting their scottish claim aren't really true interpretation of the scots.

Again, I have to say that if you aren't of scot descent but you want to "play" a scot at a ren faire then please stick to "universal" tartans.. most have some pretty cause so pick a cause.

[gem]

My husband is of Scottish ancestry (Clan Macewan, with some Munro and Ogilvy), but I am not. My understanding is that having married into the clan, I married into the "right" to wear the clan tartan. The tartans are rarer, however, so they're not always readily available from mills... and hence are more expensive than a basic, non-clan-affiliated plaid. Milord wears a custom-woven Macewan kilt, but I just didn't want to spend the money, especially since I am not of Scottish descent. So I wear a generic plaid arisaidh instead, from some lovely wool plaid yardage I picked up from Hamilton Dry Goods.  Usually, however, on Scottish days at Fair, I'll wear one of my other gowns with a plaid wrap of some kind--I have one cozy fleece one, and one from the "Braveheart" movie tartan (we liked the colors and it was ridiculously inexpensive for 9 yards of wool!).

[Nighthawk]

I'm kinda gobsmacked at the idea that the only scots that don kilts were highlanders?  Lowlanders unite!!!!!!!!!!!
We all know of the laws and the banning of colors, etc.  but the traditions proved steadfast and the lowland clans are still there.
Portraits done of englishmen exalting their scottish claim aren't really true interpretation of the scots.

Again, I have to say that if you aren't of scot descent but you want to "play" a scot at a ren faire then please stick to "universal" tartans.. most have some pretty cause so pick a cause.

I think this was simply stated as an historical fact. The lowlanders made more of an effort to emulate the continental fashions, as they regarded the Highlanders as savages. No one said there was anything wrong with a Lowlander wearing the kilt. I myself am a MacLeod who's ancestors came from the Isle of Skye, so we're actually of Norse descent. The vikings settled on Skye, and Leod is a Norse name! As to universal tartans, absolutely! They're more period realistic. Clan tartans didn't exist until about 160 years ago, and are themselves a myth that was generated by a couple of Polish men who wrote a book called The Costume Of The Clans. They're information was based on a misinterpretation of the way tartans were made. They mistook the fact that different regions had different tartans to mean that different clans had different tartans, which they didn't. The MacLeods of Skye had a different tartan from the MacLeod of Dunvegan, for example, and it wasn't because one wanted to say "Look at me!! I'm a MacLeod of Skye!" It was simply that the Highland MacLeods had different dye-making resources available to them, and vice versa.

And I have a question- why the statement about paintings of Englishmen?  I have yet to see any posted in this thread.

My husband is of Scottish ancestry (Clan Macewan, with some Munro and Ogilvy), but I am not. My understanding is that having married into the clan, I married into the "right" to wear the clan tartan. The tartans are rarer, however, so they're not always readily available from mills... and hence are more expensive than a basic, non-clan-affiliated plaid. Milord wears a custom-woven Macewan kilt, but I just didn't want to spend the money, especially since I am not of Scottish descent. So I wear a generic plaid arisaidh instead, from some lovely wool plaid yardage I picked up from Hamilton Dry Goods.  Usually, however, on Scottish days at Fair, I'll wear one of my other gowns with a plaid wrap of some kind--I have one cozy fleece one, and one from the "Braveheart" movie tartan (we liked the colors and it was ridiculously inexpensive for 9 yards of wool!).

The Braveheart tartan is actually a really good one! It's probably one of the most realistic tartans you can wear for the period. Most dyes were made from natural, local resources, and would have had that very earthy look to them. The MacKenzie weathered tartan is also exceptional for that. Mel got nothing else right in that movie... but the tartan? That was a stroke of genius! Or exceptionally good luck...

[Nighthawk]

I found some more of those paintings! They're of Jacobite period Highlanders.




According to J. Telfer Dunbar, the earliest definitive image of the "little kilt" is in a portrait of Alasdair Ruadh MacDonnell of Glengarry, dated to the early 1740's.  In the painting, Glengarry himself is wearing a belted plaid, but his henchman to the rear has on a philabeg:



It's a bit hard to see, but those who have seen the original describe that kilt as being pleated in its entire circumference, common to the period.  Now, that all-round neat pleating would be rather hard to achieve by throwing 4 yards of fabric out on the ground, hand-pleating it, and belting it on - the way modern reenactors don their "great kilts."  A drawstring or pleats stitched into place seems more likely.

[Nighthawk]

Something else that may be of interest!

Here's what Matt Newsome says about solid color-kilts:

But as for simply "non-tartan" kilts, those have been around for as long as the kilt itself, and are very traditional. It has never been a requirement
that a kilt be made from tartan, and though tartan has always been the most popular cloth for making kilts, other options have always been there.

The earliest evidence we have of a solid color kilt is in a portrait of Sir Duncan Campbell of Lochow painted in 1635 (recently posted in the historic
portrait thread). He's wearing a solid red feilidh-mor.
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