H20 power

[Capt Gabriela Fullpepper]

How would you like to drive 100 miles on 4 oz of water? You have to watch this. It just shows how the Auto companies are keeping us in oil for naught. This isn't the only video on this. Just youtube water powered and you will see others.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CMovXzVOzc4

[Morgan Dreadlocke]

Cutting with Brown's gas is neat. Too bad it makes lousy welds
I really would like to see some honest engineering in this field but its overrun with backyard inventors who make ubsurd performance claims with badly flawed test results.

[renren]

Fascinating!


Have I watched too much 70's show,when the first thing I thought of, when I read the title, was this?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=915EUxWLTzA&feature=related

[Noble Dreg]

Funny you should bring up that video renren...I remember the 70's as a VERY young kid, and I remember the same "water powered" car scam back then.  Cars will run well on hydrogen, a well proven fact...but splitting hydrogen and oxygen from water requires more energy than you get back when you re-combine them.  Like many sources of ethanol, this plan uses more energy than it delivers.  Now if you use solar or wind energy to split the hydrogen from oxygen (electrolysis) you have cheaper energy!

Another issue of burning hydrogen in cars...the byproduct is indeed water.  So a few million cars spewing water out their exhaust pipes on a sub-zero Minnesota morning...hmmm, no accident risk there!

[Cobaltblu]

Without watching the video I know it is not possible.

There simply is not enough oxygen and hydrogen in a few ounces of water to power a car for very long and then the car would need to expend energy to split the water molecule into the two gases.

It isn't possible to split water efficiently and get a net gain of work out of the process.

Regards,

CB

[Alphonse]

Of course then there is the issue of what water will you use to burn in your engine?If it is to be sea water you would have to desalinate first before you used it.Or you could use some of our limited stocks of clean potable drinking water, but then going that path is likely to lead to an entire differant sort of enviromental disaster.

The Pentagon is already begining to make plans for fighting wars in the coming century over the limited supplies of clean drinking water. That we will need to change to alternative fuel sources is a given, we have had an idea of that since the 70's but what is more is we need to rethink the ways we live and likely alter the shape of society in a way most people can not imagine. It will involve cutting back on the forms of energy we use as well as the amounts.

100 years ago most people had rich and rewarding lives with out benefit of a car,as hard as that is to imagine for most people, I think that a large segment of the population will likely return to that sort of lifestyle in the future.In the past people lived in small tight knit communites with everything close enough at hand that they could do all their required travel by foot or by mass transit.

[Morgan Dreadlocke]

Drinking water ain't pure enough Alphonse. It has to be distilled. Arizona drinking water will kill off  water converters.

"what is more is we need to rethink the ways we live and likely alter the shape of society in a way most people can not imagine."

That be the truth of it. Problem bein'- its hard to be imagineative and inovative while the pollyticians got both hands in yer pocket to pay the environmentalist whos got both hands around yer throat.

This winter I be installin' a passive solar water heater. 40 gallons 'o hot water whenever the sun be shinin'. "Passive" means I must go out and fill it up after using it. Construction cost @$300. Construction time, 1 weekend. To go to a non passive system (one that fills itself) would cost about $15 more fer the parts, $1500 more for the permits and inspections, and take several months in wasted time waitin' fer local government paperwork. Scroo 'em!

[dbaldock]

Drinking water ain't pure enough Alphonse. It has to be distilled. Arizona drinking water will kill off  water converters.
...

Pure distilled water actually isn't the best for Electrolysis.  Here's a quote about "Electrolysis of Water" from Wikipedia:

...
Electrolysis of pure water is very slow, and can only occur due to the self-ionization of water. Pure water has an electrical conductivity about one millionth that of seawater. It is sped up dramatically by adding an electrolyte (such as a salt, an acid or a base).
...

The Wikipedia article also has information about the efficiency of Electrolysis systems.

Take Care,
David Baldock

[Morgan Dreadlocke]

...
It is sped up dramatically by adding an electrolyte (such as a salt, an acid or a base).

'Tis a good point Davey, but how much of this electrolyte can the splitter handle before cloggin' up?

I love this subject.

Here's one 'o the web sites advertising double to triple mileage usin' water
3w's .water4gas.com        Just replace the w's.
Scroll down and click where it says "What do I get?". Lookin' at the picture. I see's a baggie full 'o bakin' soda. The splitter is the quart sized jar next to it. Look at the plates inside the jar. They would need to be cleaned every very few hours for the thing to work at all.  Their "fuel heater" on the lower right  corner is nothin' more than a few brass fittin's from the local hardware store, it does nuthin'. The second glass jar in the photo is quite simply A BOMB IN WAITING. Lotsa eyecandy and shiney but nothin that would ADD ANY* mileage.
W4G also wags the lure of Brown's gas or HHO with out acknowlegin' how it works (or in this case, can't). When Brown's gas ignites there is a brief flash, an instant of higher pressure as the gasses recombine from H+H+O to H2O, then an intense drop in pressure as the water vapor thats now formed condenses and takes up far less space than the gasses did. You've paid extra gasoline energy, to produce the electricity, to split the water, then use the engines heat (more gasoline energy) to recombine HHO back into water, with the result being less heat and pressure in the combustion chamber. Nowhere in the process is any energy produced that will turn that mill faster, more efficently or with less friction.
There was another site I run across last month. Their unit was $500 and was nothing more than a steam generator. 25% minimum hp gain was their claim. Still it be the prettiest piece 'o Bravo Sierra I'd seen in a while. Oh they did offer a full refund if you didn't get 25% gain- Minus the $100 restocking fee and shipping
Too many people be cornfused about water injection and what it be for
And too many shysters, snake oil peddlers, an just plain crooks be tryin' to cash in on it



*(I might come back to that subject tonight

[Morgan Dreadlocke]

AHHHH!!!! After typin fer 45 minutes I fatfingered everything inta the ether!

Goin' ta bed!

[Alphonse]

Like most of us here,not ever having tried to actually split water to extract hydrogen from it, all that I have to go on is what I have read about the process. Salt may very well help the ionization, but there is much more in sea water then simply salt, thee is several suspended metals that I know of.What I have read about the process said that sea water had to be treated before it could be used, I asumed that entailed desalinization, I could have been wrong in that.

But the point being that you must treat the water and remove whatever it is from it and them split it means that it takes more energy to prepeare it as fuel then one ends up with, a net loss in energy. Plus the fact that I mentioned about burning water being a bad idea in that we have no idea what that would cause in the way of enviromental impact. I supose one might make the arguement that because of global warming melting the ice caps and glasiers we would need to extract that same quanity of water from the oceans as fuel to keep rising ocean levels from inundating the world's coastal cities. But I doubt that the enviroment is that simple and what are the side effects of such actions, would it slow or stop the Gulf stream, wonder what that will do to weather patterns? or life in the oceans?

[dbaldock]

There's a new company in Japan that's trying to sell the "Runs on Water" technology.

Did anyone else see the article on Slashdot? ("Science: Japanese Company Says Laws of Physics Don't Apply — to Cars")

Take Care,
David Baldock

[Morgan Dreadlocke]

Aye, seen it gettin' bashed on another forum. Appears to be an attempt to combine fuel cell and water splitting techniques. The photo DID show a unit in the back of a small car. Claimed output was 300 watts. They might be runnin' the radio with it

The unit I run across a few weeks ago be found here-
3w dot aquatune.com
From the top line of there advertisement- We guarantee an increase of 25%MPG and up to 30%HP!
That followed by pages of testimonials about people gettin' fabulous results usin' this unit on every sort of vehicle.

Lets be contrastin' that to the results found by Popular Mechanics on that same specific unit-
3w dot popularmechanics.com/automotive/new_cars/1802932.htm
HMMM 20% decrease. Well at least it didn't burn the truck up like the other snake oil device.

mobilemagazine.com runs another 100mpg on 4oz claim. Halfway through the article comes "Of course none of this has been confirmed".
An that be the problem!


Man its hot in here, I'm gonna open the refrigerator door to cool the place off
If you see a flaw in that logic theres still hope for you

[John]

Home wind turbines that can be used either by themselves or coupled with solar panels to create a hybrid system.

http://www.sre3.com/viewCampaign.do?campaignId=61&gclid=CICB9KOAiZQCFRJPxgodDFUrVw

[Morgan Dreadlocke]

Got the wind
Got the land
Pollyticians put the limit at 28' feet.

At least it's not a bogus scam like burnin' water.

[*Teach*]

Here is a good plan and not a scam.
Using this solar collector as your energy source, you can charge an electric car to travel a fair distance (as long as speed isn't an issue). Batteries can be used for night of course.
And, if you set it up with a small engine to run as a back up when power fails then all needs are met really.
Solar power is my favorite option for future use. Wind runs a close second.
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,370212,00.html
http://www.livescience.com/php/video/player.php?video_id=061908-solar-collector

For those who may not know, even a nuclear power plant uses the basic idea of water spinning a turbine to generate electricity. I'm not going to play science teacher and explain it all, but if you can make steam then electricity is easy.

*hmmm... i could build a solar powered rum distiller, now there's a plan!*